O$10: what is the rationale to skip O$9 ?

Doug Easterbrook doug at artsman.com
Tue Nov 6 10:37:31 EST 2018

hi andrew ..

I’m inclined to agree —  visibility of answers is important.

Simone PIzzolato was very strong on that place being StackOverflow — since thats where all serious answers for a lot of tech things seem to be — and the list was asked in february if there was willingness 

It turned out — not really.   because there is more rigour required in the answers for stack overflow.

There was also discussion on using the Omnis list tool — but that was something to sign into and not completely open.   I know some people ask questions there - but seems not to have a critical mass to go over the tipping point.    

The criticisms are of the omnis developer list are:
— not open
— its just a forum
— things don’t get delivered to my doorstep in mail

Our list seems to like the quaintness of getting answers delivered to our doorstep.  It lacks visibility on things like google search —yet, there are othermail lists (postgres has one) and that seems visible.

so, postgres is ok, ours is not.   and the question is why not.

a google group — no comment on that, except its doomed unless there is critical mass, like the other options.

so.. where to have our interactions and to have:
— critical mass of people (i.e. we all need to be one place) and 
— google search-ability  (if you can’t find the answer on google,it useless) and
— a respected forum, possibly curated (like stack overflow where people vote on the answer and provide alternate answers)

if we shut down this list tomorrow, I’m sure we’d end up some place.    so the fundamental question is why do we all like this list?

it familiar,  for sure -its been here a long time.   
its friendly.     it has some coding topics and and some mail amongst friends.
it comes to your doorstep - daily
you don’t really have to sign up or belong (a la google groups), so its relatively anonymous. you just have to send a message.

but conversations and answers are not that searchable on google (at least not that I’m aware of). and as you point out, new omniscoders seem to say ‘ohhhh.. a mail list, how old and quaint, ugg'

and that might be the only couple of drawback.  new people would use google to search for any thread of a solution.    Like I said, postgres has a list - and you can find their answers via google - an I don’t think they have the same conversations that we have about visibility .. or people flocking to the product.

please don’t take my favouring one type of technology over the other.    I only care to go where everybody says we should go.       I do like the mail list.  I think its lack of standardization on answer format is a liability, as is the search-ability.

but I really do like its friendliness, openness, lack of being owned by a corporate entity and bit of a wild west nature.

on the other hand — I do like the precise answers on stack overflow, my other go to place for SQL answers.   but then I’ve never tried to look for coding answers to C or python or what have you on stack overflow.

so, where does that take the conversation.   This topic gets activated  once or twice a year…   and then we stay with status quo.

if the answer is that status quo is hurting us (or the future of the community)… then for gosh sakes, lets go cold turkey and shut the list of and got to a specific place.

if its not really hurting us .. and we benefit be being different, then lets stay.

PERSONALLY … I think we have an omnis that is TRULY NATIVE and cross platform (mac,windows, linux,  tablet and mobile) …   that will make people come to the product.     I don’t mean javascript - since there is enough evidence out there that native apps on mobile platforms do much better than webby ones.

have a look at this link — I use it in presentations as it talks about how people use various devices in daily lives, how it is different around the world, commerce conversion rates on mobile vs laptop (mobile is 50% of laptop, meaning people buy more on laptops), and that people prefer native apps on all devices.


Then it won’t matter where our forums are —   that problem will get solved because of the technology that embodies omnis and how great it will be as a cross platform rapid development tool.

thats my opinion. solve the technology needs first.  communication will just happen.

Doug Easterbrook
Arts Management Systems Ltd.
mailto:doug at artsman.com
Phone (403) 650-1978

> On Nov 6, 2018, at 6:40 AM, Andrew Stolarz <stolarz at gmail.com> wrote:
> When im looking for another framework, open source modules etc to work with.
> One of my MAIN things I look at before I even touch it:  is how big the
> community is, and how active are the discussions, and if they have good
> documentation.
> This is and continues to be one of the main drawbacks of Omnis to gain new
> users and even help existing users. Iv asked many developer friends (under
> 35) over the last year or so to take a look at Omnis as one of the tools
> they use.
> Guess what, they would eventually come back to me that they are not
> interested in something that they cant find answers quickly online. I told
> them to join the mailing list and got some quirky responses like if I still
> use dial-up internet etc.
> I get it this list has been great, but email lists are pointless if you
> cant build visibility online, perform quick searches, and attract others.
> We talked about over the years to make the move over to a google groups (or
> something similar). I created this group on google few years ago with
> little momentum. (if be happy to make Omnis admin to this group so they can
> take over  etc).
> http://groups.google.com/group/omnis-studio-users
> With google groups, you can still opt-in to use only email for
> communication, but at the same time the conversations are available to be
> searched online via. google for the world to see.
> Andrew
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 3:30 AM Paul Mulroney <
> pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au> wrote:
>> Hi Michael,
>> Done!  See
>> https://www.g2crowd.com/products/omnis-studio/reviews/omnis-studio-review-1076923
>> If we all put reviews on here, it will raise the profile of Omnis
>> considerably!
>> Regards,
>> Paul.
>>> On 6 Nov 2018, at 4:20 pm, Michael Monschau <michael at brainydata.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi $Guys,
>>> These are excellent selling points for Omnis, perhaps you should take
>> them and write a review for Omnis Studio at
>>> https://www.g2crowd.com/products/omnis-studio/reviews
>>> I don’t know if you received the ‘Please write a review...' email from
>> Omnis (I am sure you have Bastiaan).
>>> You have already done the hard-work here, put into words why you use
>> Omnis, so put it out there :). You could probably just copy and paste.
>>> Regards,
>>> Michael
>>> Michael Monschau (Director)
>>> Brainy Data Limited
>>> Reply To: michael at brainydata.co.uk
>>> Phone: +44 (0)870 474 0708
>>> Web: www.brainydata.com the home of Omnis Components and Developer
>> Services
>>>> On 6 Nov 2018, at 07:49, Bruno Del Sol <bruno.delsol at bydesign.fr>
>> wrote:
>>>> Le 05/11/2018 à 23:21, Bastiaan Olij a écrit :
>>>>> The ability to fix problems while you debug and see the effect of your
>> changes right there and then without ever leaving the environment you are
>> in nor having to restart anything, that is what makes it possible to double
>> if not quadruple your productivity compared to other languages.
>>>> Yes, the ability to change code while debugging it is the main <extra
>> bold> unique selling point </extra bold> of Omnis !!!  No Java, Python, JS,
>> PHP environment comes even close to this unique feature. There are 2 others
>> :
>>>> - Omnis IDE delivers you out of the box several dozens of standard and
>> design libraries ready to use, tested and integrated, and they maintain it
>> for decades. To get the same features with a Java, Python, JS, PHP
>> environment you gonna have to pile up a lot of external frameworks and
>> libraries prior to code your first line. And then, congrats, you are now
>> personally in charge of dealing with the rapid obsolescence and scary
>> safety issues of each of these bits of code for the next 10 years
>>>> - Omnis let you truly develop and deploy on 3 operating systems with a
>> single codebase (although we have lost the linux development version, which
>> I hope we'll get back soon). I work on Macos only, and i daily fix, enhance
>> and redeploy apps that run solely on Windows or Linux on corporate sites
>> where Macs are unwelcome. Once the proper initial setup is done, I don't
>> need to test my work on the deployment platform anymore : if it works on my
>> Mac, it will work seamlessly on my clients Windows or linux boxes
>>>> Regards
>>>> Bruno
>> No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery.
>> --
>> Paul W. Mulroney                                            We Don't Do
>> Simple Pty Ltd
>> pmulroney at logicaldevelopments.com.au       Trading as Logical Developments
>> www.logicaldevelopments.com.au                   ACN 161 009 374
>> Ph: +61 8 9458 3889                                       86 Coolgardie
>> Street
>> BENTLEY  WA  6102
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