O$10: what is the rationale to skip O$9 ?
Bastiaan Olij
Bastiaan.Olij at instinctsystems.com.au
Mon Nov 5 16:38:08 EST 2018
HI Bruno,
Time will tell for me whether I can develop faster or whether I will develop slower with the new method editor. Right now there are a few clunky things that need fixing and I'm looking forward to the beta 2 to see how much they have improved it. But I didn't get the feeling I was slower other than scenarios where it wasn't giving me the right hints. Especially for older 4G commands but that is something they've told me they've done something about. Where I do expect to gain speed is where I'm copying code around. This is something I always fight the old IDE with especially when the code you paste doesn't "compile" right away while I've never had any problems with other programming languages (except maybe Python when it screws up indentation).
Agreed on the styling, there is a lot of control missing here that is found in many modern UI systems, from layout options to styling.
You can get pretty far with making a modern looking UI in Omnis if you go off the beaten path, but the fact you have to is a problem and especially where interfaces that properly resize are concerned, the updates are choppy and messy. It looks pretty when you take a screenshot, not when you actually interact with the window.
Bryan got the right of it in his response. Omnis stood still for 11 years, they have a lot of catching up to do. What I find promising is that they are trying to.
Kindest Regards,
Bastiaan Olij
Head of development - Instinct Systems: The JobBag People
Ground Floor, 48 Chandos Street
St Leonards NSW 2065
Australia
Phone +61 2 8115 8000
Mobile +61 4 321 44833
bastiaan.olij at instinctsystems.com.au
http://www.jobbag.com
From: Bruno Del Sol <bruno.delsol at bydesign.fr>
To: OmnisDev List - English <omnisdev-en at lists.omnis-dev.com>, Bastiaan Olij <Bastiaan.Olij at instinctsystems.com.au>
Sent: 11/5/2018 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: O$10: what is the rationale to skip O$9 ?
Hello Bas,
Thanks for this update on the Wednesday session and your tests.
I also like the new editor although it will not make me code any faster, as far as i can tell.
New but mostly updated GUI controls should really be part of Studio 10. The main issue is with the default styling of
the basic controls that is obsolete. We need Omnis to add support to today's mainstream design themes, a new $styletheme
property (for forms and windows) could be added with 3 values :
- Default Omnis Studio (for compatibility)
- New Ios theme (https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/ios/overview/themes/)
- New Material theme (https://material.io)
When switching to one of the new theme all controls should change their default styling to match as closely as possible
the expected appearance according to the theme guidelines.
imho, embracing these new modern look and feel will satisfy both new and existing user base and kick Omnis sales up as
soon as they'll put online a few nice app examples to demo it.
Regards
bruno
By Design
http://www.bydesign.fr
Bruno Del Sol
bruno.delsol at bydesign.fr
tel (33) 01 48 78 47 37
46, rue de La Tour d'Auvergne
75009 Paris (France)
Le 05/11/2018 à 02:58, Bastiaan Olij a écrit :
> Hi Bruno,
>
>
> All three points you mention here were addressed at EurOmnis during the Wednesday session with Omnis Software.
>
>
> The method editor indeed is something that many Omnis old-timers won't care about, but in there lies the problem for Omnis Software. The old-timers are retiring, it is the new generation that they need to entice in order for this wonderful product to survive, and the new generation doesn't care for the old method editor. I actually spend the time using the new method editor during my EurOmnis sessions to get some more experience with it. While there were a few weak points, most of which I reported to tech support, some of which were already fixed and I've seen in action, it was actually a joy to work with and pretty solid for a first release.
>
>
> The beta 1 was brought out some time ago already and indeed mainly is around the new editor that they wanted to put in front of developers to find issues with and they have been very clear in communicating that. Omnis Software showed off the remote debugger and several improvements to the GUI which will be in the beta 2 which is hopefully coming sooner rather than later (and if Omnis Software is reading along, I much rather have beta 2 now with what is already available and then a beta 3 later on in the year, than wait for beta 2 any longer :) ). You can call it an alpha but that to me is semantics.
>
>
> More modern GUI controls may or may not make it into the next beta or even into Studio 10. Omnis Software did show off a few new GUI controls that will likely be in those releases but some others may require bigger changes. Bob Whiting showed off some new controls with proper alpha transparency for instance that they are working on that I am really looking forward to using.
> Now that they've made the move to Cocoa things have become easier on the Mac (I presume) but on the Windows side this requires changing the drawing architecture from the old Window GUI to something like the Direct Draw API to make use of the hardware acceleration (what Cocoa currently uses OpenGL for, now moving to Metal). That is a pretty structural change but one I hope they make.
>
>
> While I wish Studio 10 would come out before the end of the year, I agree with you I hope they take the time to hit this one out of the ballpark. But I do believe they are sailing a strong course, if what we saw at EurOmnis comes to fruition I think Studio 10 will be a strong offering.
>
> Kindest Regards,
>
>
> Bastiaan Olij
> Head of development - Instinct Systems: The JobBag People
> Ground Floor, 48 Chandos Street
> St Leonards NSW 2065
> Australia
>
>
> Phone +61 2 8115 8000
> Mobile +61 4 321 44833
> bastiaan.olij at instinctsystems.com.au
> http://www.jobbag.com
>
>
>
> From: Bydesign <bruno.delsol at bydesign.fr>
> To: OmnisDev List - English <omnisdev-en at lists.omnis-dev.com>
> Sent: 11/2/2018 5:17 AM
> Subject: Re: O$10: what is the rationale to skip O$9 ?
>
> I would guess they put themselves in a tricky position :
>
> - They’ve put a lot of time and effort into a new method editor that probably almost none of the existing customers really care about
> - beta 1 is missing some of the key features that were advertised, mainly remote debug and better js grids, which makes it more an alpha version than a beta, there is probably a lot more work to do before shipping
> - meanwhile the costumers (us) are as ever complaining about what they really care : we beg for more modern, responsive, consistent, fancy, groovy, top of the notch, animated gui controls, because that’s the only thing our clients ask for IRL !
>
> So, if they need more time to do it, that’s ok with me, and i don’t mind if the efforts they put in the right direction causes some version numbering jumps.
>
> Just 2 cents
> Bruno
>
>
> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>
>> Le 1 nov. 2018 à 18:54, Alan Schmidt <alan at goconnected.com> a écrit :
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, they can call it whatever they want.
>>
>> The fact that they've skipped over 8.2 to go to 10 is what is problematic for me, as we were counting on that version...
>>
>> -Alan
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/18, 10:40 AM, "omnisdev-en on behalf of Grzegorz (Greg) Pasternak" <omnisdev-en-bounces at lists.omnis-dev.com on behalf of gpasternak at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Well, when decision was made to move from O%6 to O%8 it was based on the idea of not having confusion with O7 (aka classic).
>> As far as I know, there was no O9 classic, so why 10 is all of the sudden better then 9?
>>
>> Btw, I don't think there is such a thing as "lucky" number. People do come up with all sorts of ideologically driven explanations but I am interested why rational people chose to follow the irrational "lucky number" philosophy.
>>
>> I am just curious, that is all.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2018, at 1:22 PM, Andrew Stolarz <stolarz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In the email from omnis it stated:
>>>
>>> "We believe the significant development of version 10 marks a new era for
>>> Omnis Software and the renumbering reflects this step change in our
>>> product, marketing and ambition."
>>>
>>>
>>> If you look at Apple, they are on version 10 since 2001 & they continue to
>>> release product running of 10 (X). Im sure apples marketing dept is
>>> sticking to lucky number 10 for a reason (marketing wise).
>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 1:18 PM Grzegorz (Greg) Pasternak <
>>> gpasternak at cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Does anyone know the rationale behind the decision to release O$10 instead
>>>> of O$9?
>>>> What is more interesting, why is the announcement made today about
>>>> something that is supposedly planned to be released some time in the
>>>> future?
>>>>
>>>> I have expected O$9 to be released during Euromnis 2018 back in October
>>>> but that did not happen, no explanation was given either.
>>>> Is this done for some marketing reasons again?
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>> _____________________________________________________________
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