Approaching Omnis again scares me, too much to learn?

Jerry Greenberg jerry at
Fri Jan 5 13:09:45 EST 2018

I loved the dml and I fought going from dml to 
sql tooth and nail, but when I started working on 
larger corporate projects I had no choice.  Like 
I said previously basic sql is pretty easy to 
learn, it's when you get into large sql scripts, 
transactions, etc. that it gets a bit 
complicated.  But you can avoid much of that 
complication by using a combination of basic sql 
and Omnis (smaller projects), but once again it's 
not the most efficient or accepted way of doing things.

I still say that it's when you get into extra 
layers like table classes, and queries classes 
that things start to look a little crazy to the 
new sql programmers.  There are great advantages 
to their use in larger multi developer 
environments, but in smaller environments they 
add a lot of complexity.  The simple fact that if 
you have 100 server tables, then 100 schema, then 
you add 100 table classes, and possibly that 
many  or more query classes makes you want to 
scratch your head.  Plus many if not most clients 
seem to keep their sql separate, on the backend, stored procedures etc.

just my .01 worth

At 08:37 AM 1/5/2018, you wrote:
>Jerry, Since you missed Euromnis this year :-( 
>At EurOmnis Bob W announced a one more thing: an 
>addition to the SQLite DAM which would allow an 
>DML emulation to SQLite. As Bob said it feels 
>like a guilty pleasure. ( and if can be done for 
>SQLite why not PG . . . ) This is imho one 
>additional reason to move to O$8 Regards, Marc 
>On 4 Jan 2018, at 15:14, Jerry Greenberg 
>wrote: > Hi Das, basic SQL is actually pretty 
>simple and for most desktop/dml > type apps 
>that's all you'll really need.  Sure for 
>ultimate efficiency > you can create some 
>complex SQL but for smaller apps it's really 
>not > necessary.  Learn the strategies of 
>connecting your tables, learn your > joins and 
>you'll be off to a running start. > > As you may 
>recall I have been around Omnis since the 80s as 
>well, and > for a while on the Omnis Consulting 
>team, and I have worked with many > of the 
>developers here and on numerous large projects 
>and I think my > best advice for you is 
>this.  Understand that much of what you read > 
>here on the list comes from developers that have 
>or currently work on > multi developer teams, 
>for large companies, and on very large > 
>projects, and the techniques they use have some 
>great advantages in > that environment.  But, to 
>try and implement those techniques in a > single 
>developer environment is most likely counter 
>productive, > daunting and complex.  You may 
>want to learn some of those techniques > down 
>the line but you don't have to use them. > > My 
>suggestion is to learn basic sql, and forget 
>about table classes, > and query classes for 
>now. (if you use them you won't be learning 
>your > sql)  Just use the schema classes, define 
>your lists and rows from the > schema classes, 
>create some select statements, and use your 
>notation > skills to access the data.  It's a 
>good start. > > > oh btw. the sqllite database 
>is a great little database which I look > at as 
>a great replacement to the datafile. > > > Good 
>luck, > Jerry > > At 03:55 PM 1/2/2018, you 
>wrote: >> Hello All, I am RE approaching Omnis 
>with a view to becoming a >> 
>developer/consultant to businesses. I am 
>completely expert with Omnis >> and the native 
>database it provides, but don’t know SQL 
>or >> anything else, I only know Omnis. I 
>don’t know any other >> language at all.  I 
>go back to 86 but haven’t done anything 
>for >> ten years.  It’s scary enough to 
>have to learn SQL and how to >> connect to 
>databases.  But all the stuff you guys and gals 
>discuss >> here and on the other forum scares 
>me.  How did you all learn all >> about Java and 
>Jason and Restful etc etc.  How do you keep 
>it >> straight in your heads? My real question 
>is this:  If I could learn >> SQL and how to 
>setup and maintain backends and the 
>connectivity, is >> that enough to be a 
>consultant today?  I imagine right away the 
>next >> point is that businesses will want phone 
>access apps, tablet apps, to >> access their 
>databases and then I’d be looking at 
>Javascript >> which I don’t know. At age 57 
>and reapproaching, I wonder how >> much time it 
>takes to learn these things and begin 
>consulting. Are >> all these fancy other things 
>smaller than Omnis learning itself?  I >> sure 
>hope so.  It took a good while to learn 
>Omnis.  I’m very >> good at Omnis but only 
>Omnis Native.  Don’t yet know what a >> 
>Schema is, but I can do notation to control 
>anything, I can do >> complex interfaces and 
>handle complex data.  Just dont know anything >> 
>else.  Do any businesses still go for using the 
>Native Datafile?  >> With that I’m ready 
>already. One reason I want to learn SQL is >> to 
>earn more.  The businesses for which the Native 
>datafile is >> appropriate are smaller and 
>poorer.  I believe you can charge more to >> the 
>SQL requiring businesses.  Comments? Is the 
>"Lone Developer" >> still possible?   You all 
>seem to be in teams. Just scared badly.   >> Any 
>help appreciated. >> 
>Manage >> your list subscriptions at 
> > > 
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