Locking

Reg Paling reg.paling at lokanet.com
Mon Dec 12 15:14:17 EST 2016


Hi Doug,

These veterinary analogies are dramatic but they have their 
limitations!  If Omnis Software gets rid of the NDF, does that mean 
getting rid of the CRB as well?  If the NDF goes, I for one would be 
happy to see the CRB disappear with it, however less than a year ago you 
wrote:

 >>the general belief is that file classes have no more use now that 
there are schema classes and talking to sql databases.
 >>we are totally sql — but we still find the file classes incredibly 
useful for merging into the CRB for a number of things.

... so where should Omnis draw the line?

While I am in favour of the changes in Studio 8.x, I do hope Omnis 
maintains the ODB (as a deprecated feature) for future operating systems 
as long as possible.

Cheers,
Reg
PS - It's a measure of how much I appreciate your posts that I remember 
what you wrote a year ago!


On 13/12/16 5:33 am, Doug Easterbrook wrote:
> Sadly, Gary,  native data file not a dead horse, but very much a live one that needs to be killed.
>
> People like the native data file.  I get that - we used it for 20 years.  Let those who like NDF continue to use it.   More power to them.  just don’t complain publicly if it doesn’t work on a new operating system or version of Studio.    Why? — there has been a decade of advanced warning of the limitations and likelihood of death, so we need to pay heed to this warning.
>
>
> At a base level, the job of this list is to help people.   Helping people takes many forms.  Sometimes the best course of action is suggesting a developer move forward and alerting them if they are going down a rabbit hole from which they are never likely to emerge from.   Watching people get hurt or waste time trying to solve futile tasks — that very very much saddens me.
>
>
> so, in the view of the bigger picture …..
>
> I see good prospects ahead for Tiger Logic/Studio under new ownership and I’m happy to support them.   TL have limited resources and I think we all want them to build features that ARE GOOD FOR OUR FUTURE and not things mired in the past.
>
> Limited resources means deciding what to triage and historical dinosaurs need to die.   Multi-user Native Data file and ODB is a dinosaur.    non-unicode is also end of life.   XP, vista support or non-intel mac support - are dying or soon to be dead.  Publish/subscribe is gone.    Take them all out of the product and give me a leaner, meaner development platform.
>
>
> thats why this topic is not yet a dead horse.    People keep trying give the native data file mouth to mouth resuscitation when it has already flatlined and should be declared dead.
>
>
>
> I’m fairly sure that Omnis has make the decision to take it off life support .   Those are the implications you hear at the developer conferences.   People just need to be aware to avoid any element of surprise.
>
>
>
>
> The purpose of dialog is not telling people what they ought to do since I know full well that they will do what they want.  it is caring enough to inform people about future risks to their livelihood.   It is a big difference - forewarned is forearmed.
>
>
> Doug Easterbrook
> Arts Management Systems Ltd.
> mailto:doug at artsman.com
> http://www.artsman.com
> Phone (403) 650-1978
>
>> On Dec 12, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Gary Connor <gary_connor at directline-tech.com> wrote:
>>
>> We're sort of beating a dead horse here.  Use of the NDF does have some very appropriate uses.  The debate is resurrected every time anyone even mentions the NDF.  Personally, I hope I don't have to read the debate _every week_.  Let the developer, the customer, and ultimately, Omnis Software make the decision.  The list is great for advice and helps solve many problems.  I'd hate to see it deteriorate in anyone telling anyone what they "ought to do."  Let's schedule this debate to occur once a year on June 22 and then not repeat it AGAIN for another year.
>>
>> Please.
>>
>>
>> Gary Connor, Ph.D., CIO, CISO
>> DirectLine Technologies, Inc.
>> Modesto, CA 95351
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: omnisdev-en [mailto:omnisdev-en-bounces at lists.omnis-dev.com] On Behalf Of wendy
>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 7:52 AM
>> To: 'OmnisDev List - English'
>> Subject: RE: Locking
>>
>> I think this really depends on your customer base - most of my customers now
>> have no more than 6 users and do not have IT experience to be able to
>> maintain a SQL database.
>>
>> Also being able to make changes to the database structure is extremely
>> simple with an Omnis database - a new version of the software and possibly a
>> check data - while SQL would mean scripts for them to run.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Wendy Osbaldestin
>> Wizard Computer Services
>> Tel:  01260271647
>> Mobile: 07740541021
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: omnisdev-en [mailto:omnisdev-en-bounces at lists.omnis-dev.com] On Behalf
>> Of John Hosmer
>> Sent: 12 December 2016 15:12
>> To: OmnisDev List - English
>> Subject: Re: Locking
>>
>> I¹ll agree, and for most apps, and given the knowledge on the list, this
>> would be a relatively easy conversion.
>> Much easier than a move from 07 to studio (for the relative part).
>>
>> Connection info, pitfalls, recommendations, example code, etc, everything is
>> available from list members, and (depending on library size) not a difficult
>> change.
>>
>> john
>>
>> John Hosmer
>> DealerBuilt
>> Support: 800.499.1914
>> mobile: 641.425.5183
>>
>> Follow us on:
>> <http://www.dealerbuilt.com/>
>> <http://www.facebook.com/pages/DealerBuilt/157228651057212>
>> <http://twitter.com/dealerbuilt>
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/company/dealerbuilt---lightyear-dealer-technologie
>> s>
>> Stop by our booth 3561 at  #NADA2017 New Orleans
>> <http://convention.nada.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/12/16, 9:00 AM, "omnisdev-en on behalf of Doug Easterbrook"
>> <omnisdev-en-bounces at lists.omnis-dev.com on behalf of doug at artsman.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I¹ll get shot for saying this
>>>
>>> personal opinion is that df1 has no really valid use cases and that all
>>> use cases can be covered with better technology at little or no cost.
>>>
>>> postgres and sqllite are free, can easily be deployed on any machine
>>> (including for personal databases), are far faster and more capable.
>>> you an even treat them like df1¹s with single file finds, connected
>>> records and all that stuffŠ t
>>> but, being sql, offer up a whole lot more.      and they address where
>>> technology is going --- that byte range locking support in an operating
>>> system is going to eventually fade away.
>>>
>>> the signposts have been there for a long time.   ODB  (circa Omnis 3.8)
>>> was the advance warning that this style of db support was getting
>>> problematic, so there has been well over a decade that we¹ve all known
>>> about it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Doug Easterbrook
>>> Arts Management Systems Ltd.
>>> mailto:doug at artsman.com
>>> http://www.artsman.com
>>> Phone (403) 650-1978
>>>
>>>> On Dec 11, 2016, at 12:25 PM, Bryan Brodie <brb at appimatic.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  From reading the V8 tech notes, I got the impression that traditional
>>>> LAN-locking of the DF1 file was no longer possible from a Mac OS (X)
>>>> client, but it seemed to me that it was still supported in Windows.
>>>> Don't
>>>> know about Linux.
>>>>
>>>> I've not upgraded so I cannot offer more insight, other than to say,
>>>> not every solution requires SQL and net-shared DF1 has many valid use
>> cases.
>>>> I hate to see it go away, but that's where we're headed.
>>>>
>>>> DF1-type logic would be an incredible option for solely local storage
>>>> in a  truly mobile (iOS / Android) Omnis runtime (not JS/server
>>>> based).
>>>>
>>>> Like I've stated previously, I can dream...
>>>>
>>>> Bryan Brodie
>>>>
>>>> From: "wendy" <wizardcompserv at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: RE: Locking
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you are wrong there because the omnis handling of locking is
>>>>> so simple
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> Wendy Osbaldestin
>>>>> Wizard Computer Services
>>>>> Tel:  01260271647
>>>>> Mobile: 07740541021
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Mike Matthews
>>>>> Sent: 11 December 2016 12:35
>>>>> To: OmnisDev List - English
>>>>> Subject: Re: Locking
>>>>>
>>>>> Locking as in Database DF1 locking?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, I didn't think this was now supported without the ODB.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Matthews,
>>>>> Managing Director, SQLWorks Software Ltd
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: +44 (0)1271 375999
>>>>>
>>>>> Email: mike.matthews at sqlworks.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>> Web: www.sqlworks.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>> Use SQLWorks, forget Sage, ACT!, Opera, Access & SAP
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11 Dec 2016, at 08:00, Chris Hughes <ataddata at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody else had trouble with locking on Omnis Studio 8.
>>>>>> Info:-
>>>>>> Omnis native data file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On same server as before that had Omnis studio 4 running on it
>>>>>> looking into a refurbished data base. refurbished one will be
>>>>>> uni-code I
>>>>>> assume)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Server Microsoft not the latest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Hughes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Copious Data Pty Ltd (Trading as Atad Data)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unit 8 /3460 Pacific Highway
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Springwood QLD 4127
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phone No:- 07 3208 6347
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mobile No:- 0409 263 349
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fax No:- 07 3208 9347
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email:- ataddata at bigpond.net.au
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Web Site:- http://ataddata.com.au




More information about the omnisdev-en mailing list